Wait! The Others have a Lazarus Pit? (LOST SPOILERS AHEAD)

Posted by under *mixed, Television |

The following discussion took place via Facebook over the last 24 hours. Some of the comments have been reordered for clarity’s sake.

Kevinmld: The Others have a Lazarus Pit?

On the Others versus the Hostiles and vice versa

Ryan H: They are the hostiles, Kev.  The others are a different group altogether.

Katie D: I thought the Dharma group was the “others”. Richard’s group was the “hostiles”. Then Ben killed off all the dharma folk & became part of Richard’s group. But then Ben tried to make the “hostiles” more like the “others” if that makes sense. Because I remember Season 3 there was tension in the ranks with Richard & Ben. At least that was my understanding.

Kevinmld: I’m not convinced. When we first saw the others running around in season one, weren’t they running around in rags and barefeet. I seem to remember their feet not touching the ground or something… but it’s been so many years I may be making that part up. I think it’s one group… Or they were one group in the past.

Ryan H: Kev, those others took the kids. The kids you saw today.

Jay H: Ben and Richard were a part of The Hostiles. They def wore the rags before. At some point, Ben rose to power, split off and slaughtered the Dharma Initiative. “The Others” is the name branded by the plane survivors for Ben and his people who lived in Dharmaville.

Katie D: Ben had to kill the Dharma folks in order to become part of Richard’s group.

Shawn H: i thought it was awesome when the guys were all like “oh nos don’t drown him in the magic hot tub.” asian dude shoulda been like “oh i’m sorry is your magical hot tub different than mine?”

Jay H: Shawn’s back!!

Chris B: Just catching up on some of the early discussions on here… the 815 Losties dubbed the island’s inhabitants the “others”… the Dharma Folks used the term “hostiles” to talk about the island’s orig inhabitants… so I think we are talking about the same group of people. Am I right?

Kevinmld: Chris- I’m with you the hostiles are the others. In my opinion anyway. This is just them having abandoned the village.

Ryan H: I disagree, Kevin. I think they are two separate people. They may have intermingled at some point, but I still think they were two separate groups possibly under different leadership.

PTB: We’ve seen the hostiles living in the jungle, then Ben wipes out the Dharma Initiative and they live in the town, Locke takes over and they’re back to the jungle, Locke disappears and now they’re at the Temple (I think I remember Richard even saying they should get to the Temple).

It could be that the Temple group with the people we’ve never seen before are a separate group, but the stewardess was the one who took the kids and she was also in the town when Jack, Kate and Sawyer were being held prisoner. So if there are two groups, she’s been part of both of them.

On Television budgets and computer graphics

Matt W: I was mad for most of the episode because the temple’s stone walls looked like painted foam.

Kevinmld: The bad stone walls weren’t as horrible as the remains of the island under the water. That was embarassing.

Ryan H: With the shark. that was Escape from LA bad.

Matthew W: True. If they had shown the submarine again it might have made an unholy trinity of production budget misallocation.

Ryan H: At this point the bad CGI is kinda hilarious. You expect it. Even the smoke monster throwing the guys around was pretty bad.

Jay H: Haha That shit wasn’t fit for the Wii. The whole underwater landscape was bad but that awful CGI shark with a Dharma shield stamped on it was tops.

Ryan H: Yeah, but you gotta love that. Again, I think the bad CGI has become part of the charm.

Chris B: Oh yeah, and the CGI, I’m guessing since day 1 when it comes to a TV budget, the producer’s only have so much money to spread around…..plus when they wrapped up the intro to this episode, James Cameron was putting the finishing touches on Avatar.. so he couldnt be around to refine everything.

Jay H: http://videogum.com/archives/love-watching/the_season_premiere_of_lost_fa_112521.html

Kevinmld: Acting!!!!

On timelines and Ryan’s fascination with Desmond’s special nature

Shawn H: is no one else going to question why the hell des was on the plane?

Jay H: No one has any answers to the alternate timeline yet, brother!

Shawn H: kevin can we get a ruling a on the timelines or are you still crunching the numbers?

Kevinmld: Seems obvious. They succeeded in setting the bomb off changing the timeline. The people on the plane including Desmond are in this alternate reality ala star trek. But the people on the island are still living in their timeline. Ask Dr. Michio Kaku.

Kevinmld: It’s also why old Spock didn’t blink out of existence.

Ryan H: and you are right, Kev. This has Michio Kaku written all over it. “Two streams diverting at a single point” blah blah blah.

And to the point of Desmond: I do not know about that one. If splitting the timeline at the bomb, then I’m pretty sure the timeline should have changed all the way back to the 50s (or further back). Richard Alpert would never have met Locke. The bomb would never have been buried. etc.

Ryan H: Oh, I didn’t give the Desmond point: I don’t know about that yet. I think its too soon to tell if he was on the plane.

PTB: Desmond is on the plane because in that timeline there is no island for him to be on. It’s at the bottom of an ocean of bad animation.

Ryan H: I have a feeling Desmond’s appearance cannot be explained without looking at his special nature. He has always been different. He has no logical reason to be on the plane and coincidence doesn’t cut it.

Casie W: I am confused about the other timeline too. Perhaps they still have unfinished business on the island. After they are released, time will be reset to 2004 and that’s where they will leave us. I HAVE NO IDEA.

On bodysnatching, stabbage, and Obi-Wan style ghosts and apparitions

Jay H: Is everyone going with Jacob is Sayid, now?

Ryan H: Don’t know, Jay. Locke’s body is still dead. So taking over a dead body would be something different… Unless Jacob is Christian… Then there is precedent for it.

Kevinmld: I’m not convinced that Sayid is Jacob, though it was my first thought. I’m assuming this is the same process Ben went through when Sayid tried to kill him. So maybe it’ll be Sayid back but just a little  off.

Shawn H: Jacob is defeated. i find it very hard to imagine that he’s still able to pull the same shenanigans after the stabbage with respect to Sayid.

Ryan H: I agree with Shawn. I expect an Obi-Won Jacob from now on.

PTB: Sayid as Jacob makes a lot of sense and his body was off screen for some time so it doesn’t have to be a body takeover.

Kevinmld: The only reason I doubt Jacob as Sayid is that the fake Locke didn’t actually possess Locke’s body. He just looks like him.

Katie D: I originally thought Jacob had hijacked Sayid’s body, but now you have me doubting myself! Although, why else would Jacob tell Hurley to bring Sayid to the temple?

Casie W: Also, I thought Sayid was Jacob too until Kevin pointed out the body thing. But… if the dude can shift into the smoke monster then he can shift into anything… like Alex in season 5. Perhaps the loophole was not the dead body, but rather the circumstance? So Jacob applies the same concept and inhabits Sayid.

Ryan H: Kevin better not take credit for the body thing Casie mentioned. I stated that in this thread before he did.

Kevinmld: Wow. I totally recited Ryan’s comment and had NO idea.

Ryan H: Thanks. I had the patent.

Jay H: If it was possession, it’d explain Christian visiting everyone easily, too. His body wasn’t in the coffin debris, back in the day and this shit is just Jacob and Smoke Monster’s thing. I feel like there’s two John bodies around SOMEHOW. How’d he make it off the island in the first place? I forget.

Ryan H: Turned wheel

Jay H: Right and then he was just back on mainland? That shit is shaky. It didn’t work like that for anyone else did it?

Ryan H: Tunisa. Widmore had survaillance set up and picked him up.

Jay H: Right. I remembered it all when you called the wheel. Christian led him to that too: “Ben’s never been worth a damn”… I don’t know, though– two Locke bodies isn’t real clean or satisfying.

Ryan H: You are right. It must be explained.

Shawn H: let’s get our facts straight up there. it wasn’t Jacob morphing to smoke monster, it was other guy of questionable evil/goodness (the one who masqueraded as john locke). Has it been proven that morphing to smokey is within Jacob’s skillset?

Jay H: No, just seeing them as equals. Similar tricks.

Kevinmld: I just hope the Asian guy’s name is Ra’s al Ghul.

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  • Lydon Writes said,

    I don’t ever want to hear sauce from you about length of posts again, Kevin. EVER.

    You think Asian guy is training Bruce Wayne in another foam-stone corridor we haven’t seen?

  • ptb said,

    In Kevin’s defense, he didn’t write all those words himself.

  • kevinmld said,

    Have I ever criticized you for writing stuff that’s too long? That doesn’t sound like me… but I guess it’s possible.

  • Lydon Writes said,

    While I wouldn’t call it “criticism” per se, you did poke fun at my glibness in your play by play of the world karaoke championships. And I quote:

    “This post is now sooo Matt Lyd-ian in length that it has expanded into a second post.”

    Just pokin’ back, is all.

  • Kevinmld said,

    Ah yes. I guess I did. You can tell how serious the post was by my distinct memory of it.

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